Pending More Points

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Right now AFKing overnight is the best way to get points instead of actually playing, which gives AFKers an unfair advantage as they are able to buy upgrades significantly faster/have a way better chance of winning the lottery or at the very least recovering from it.

This is FUCKED UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Increasing the points gained from kills/winning rounds/fun rounds would make playing the server the best way to get points. It would mean you are earning upgrades through gameplay and not through playtime which is a lot more engaging. It would also make the lottery a lot less risky to join in since you could gain points back quicker, making it less likely that 1 person wins every time.

Decreasing upgrade prices might be good alternatively, but I think increasing the points gained also helps fix the problem people have with the lottery without ruining it.
 
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I don't mind joining a server with 10 player count only to discover it's actually 4 including me. Certainly not what I was led to expect. And I think it's entirely reasonable to feel bummed out and that some players will choose to dip when discovering that. I think that's a valid criticism of it.
My experience has been that sometimes that higher spot/bigger pop in the server listings means a lot of people join quickly and it fills up. The hardest slots to fill are the first like 8 players. The server showing as 9-10 pop even though it's 4 or 5 helps break through that ceiling and get the server more active faster.

I think, broadly speaking, most can agree with these two points:
Active players are more important to the server and player retention than AFKers.
Therefore, active play should be rewarded more than AFKing.

Currently, that is already the case if you compare 1:1 - an active player gets more points due to kills than the AFK gets for just sitting there for the same amount of time.
But active play is for a few hours, whereas afk is often for the majority of the day, putting it significantly ahead anyway. And though it's a little silly, the progression with TTT upgrades does affect player retention as well - giving out too many points too fast removes that incentive. So it shouldn't be increased too much or too rapidly.
I don't think we should disincentivize AFKing, it does help fast track us to medium-high pop. But making active play feel more worthwhile - or just empowering the player to go risk it all in the lottery - would be a good change.

Like I suggested above, a 20-25% bump (on average) for valid kills will bring the two closer together and strike a better balance. That's a conservative increase and could definitely be higher. I think increasing it in smaller increments prevents overshooting - and players are always happier being told "We're increasing points gained" than "We're reducing points gained".
 
AFKing to boost pop count is already incentivized if points are still rewarded to AFKers. Why wouldn't you want to actively incentivize and reward people for playing the game?? The whole point of the server is to play it????
 
We are going to manipulate the economy.

Jokes aside though yeah, AFKing for points is definitely lame and I get why it feels unfair. The thing is, just cranking up points from kills/wins will cause a ton of point inflation. People will end up sitting on massive balances and prices in the shop won’t really mean anything anymore. That’s why the idea right now is to just drop the prices in the pointshop instead. Same end result where you can get upgrades faster by actually playing but without flooding the server with points that make everything worthless. It also helps with the lottery problem since stuff’s cheaper, so losing points isn’t as big of a hit, and it’s harder for one person to completely dominate just because they AFK.

Basically, cheaper prices = more reward for playing, less reward for idling, and no broken economy. Thats my general thinking and we already have plans in place to look at all item prices and adjust accordingly, and yes we will be running math. We hope to explain this in an announcement
 
SMOR said:
With your suggestion, people who play 6+ hours would have an unfair advantage as opposed to those that have jobs and other obligations and can only play for an hour or 2 every so often. :)
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I mean yeah that's how video games work. You put time and effort in and the game rewards you for it. I think that is very fair. Sometimes you start up a minecraft server or a terraria world with friends and then go to work for the week come back find everyone has diamonds. That's just life you get busy as an adult, doesn't mean others should be punished/you should be rewarded for that. I'd feel a lot less annoyed if someone actually grinded for upgrades vs a guy sat in the server for 2 weeks, went all in on a few lotteries and tripled their points and now can get any upgrade they want. That feels cheap and manipulative of the system to me

Siddo said:
Like I suggested above, a 20-25% bump (on average) for valid kills will bring the two closer together and strike a better balance. That's a conservative increase and could definitely be higher. I think increasing it in smaller increments prevents overshooting - and players are always happier being told "We're increasing points gained" than "We're reducing points gained".
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I think this is the best solution, increasing it slowly in a way that won't make an immediate difference but will add up overtime, and AFKs can still get the same amount of points so some people will still AFK.

My Dime Is Up said:
Basically, cheaper prices = more reward for playing, less reward for idling, and no broken economy.
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I'd say lowering prices makes points less important, which is good, but I think it still leaves the problem a lot of people have with the lottery, in that once someone gets to a certain amount of points its nearly impossible for them to lose the lottery. The gap between the 1% and us normal guys is increasing everyday and I think a small point gain increase would help prevent that/make it easier for others to have a chance at winning. I think regardless people are going to get to a point where points don't matter, I'd just rather have them get there from actually playing.

Would be helpful if someone who AFKs overnight could track how many points they get so we can get some real math going :)
 
My Dime Is Up said:
The thing is, just cranking up points from kills/wins will cause a ton of point inflation. People will end up sitting on massive balances and prices in the shop won’t really mean anything anymore. That’s why the idea right now is to just drop the prices in the pointshop instead. Same end result where you can get upgrades faster by actually playing but without flooding the server with points that make everything worthless. It also helps with the lottery problem since stuff’s cheaper, so losing points isn’t as big of a hit, and it’s harder for one person to completely dominate just because they AFK.
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So I did some very bad maffs just to see what my suggested buff would actually amount to. I forget if detectives give extra points to T, and I didn't account for DNA kills either. The overtuned presumed averages should help counterbalance any deficit.

I've done this for 3 cases: 8 players, 16 players, and 32 players.
I've purposefully used some parameters that are not feasible in-game, such as assuming everyone dies to headshots every round. My presumed averages are overtuned, especially for inno on traitor kills - this is because some players overperform, while others underperform. Using these presumed averages, I hoped to approximate a median value to get a more accurate image of the value a player would really gain.

For each case, I've looked at the following pre- and post-buff:
The maximum potential points per round assuming everyone dies to headshots.
Then multiply the maximum potential poins per round by rounds per hour, then divide that by player count to get the real expected value per player where every round sees near-maximum points. Finally for comparison, using a presumed performance standard and a 1/4 ratio of traitor rounds, estimate the hourly gain a median player would expect to see.
Specifically; for rounds, I've assumed that the time to complete a round follows a simple formula: time/round = PlayerCount/4+2 minutes.
For kills, I've assumed 3 valid headshot kills per traitor round and 0.5 valid headshot kill per inno round.
Expected performance said:
Pre-buff:
Traitor: 3 x 20 = 60 / round
Inno/Dete: = 0.5 x 50 = 25 / round

Post-buff:
Traitor: 3 x 25 = 75 / round
Inno/Dete: 0.5 x 60 = 30 / round
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Rounds/hour: 60 / (8 / 4 + 2) = 15 rounds / hour
Pre-Buff:
Maximum points: 6 x 20 + 2 x 50 = 220 points
Real value per player on average:
220 x 15 rounds = 3300. 3300 / 8 = 412,5
Median player's expected value for active play:
3.75 x T + 11.25 x inno = 3.75 x 60 + 11.25 x 25
= 506.25 points.
Post-buff:
Maximum points: 6 x 25 + 2 x 60 = 270 points
Real value per player on average:
270 x 15 rounds = 4050. 4050 / 8 = 506.25
Median player's expected value for active play:
3.75 x T + 11.25 x inno = 3.75 x 75 + 11.25 x 30
= 618.75 points.

Rounds/hour: 60 / (16 / 4 + 2) = 10 rounds / hour
Pre-Buff:
Maximum points: 12 x 20 + 4 x 50 = 440 points
Real value per player on average:
440 x 10 rounds = 4400. 4400 / 16 = 275
Median player's expected value for active play:
2.5 x T + 7.5 x inno = 2.5 x 60 + 7.5 x 25
= 337.5 points.
Post-buff:
Maximum points: 12 x 25 + 4 x 60 = 540 points
Real value per player on average:
540 x 10 rounds = 5400. 5400 / 16 = 337.5
Median player's expected value for active play:
2.5 x T + 7.5 x inno = 2.5 x 75 + 7.5 x 30
= 412.5 points.

Rounds/hour: 60 / (32 / 4 + 2) = 6 rounds / hour
Pre-Buff:
Maximum points: 24 x 20 + 8 x 50 = 880 points
Real value per player on average:
880 x 6 rounds = 5280. 5280 / 32 = 165 points
Median player's expected value for active play:
1.5 x T + 4.5 x inno = 1.5 x 60 + 4.5 x 25
= 202.5 points.
Post-buff:
Maximum points: 24 x 25 + 8 x 60 = 1080 points
Real value per player on average:
1080 x 6 rounds = 6480. 6480 / 32 = 202.5
Median player's expected value for active play:
1.5 x T + 4.5 x inno = 1.5 x 75 + 4.5 x 30
= 247.5 points.

In conclusion/TL;DR:
My proposed buff would bump the average player's expected points per hour of active play by roughly 22%.
But, I hear you not ask: how much more do I get per hour then if I'm a decent player?
Roughly 60-90 points more than what you already get, is what I'd expect you to actually get, based on these shoddy calculations.
Or an extra 1-1.5 point per minute for your time.

It's actually really sm0l. My suggested numbers were dog water. I vastly overestimated what active play actually nets you in point gain. Buff it more tbh.
Current kill point gain could easily be increased by 50% across the board, incl. headshot bonus points.
Thanks for coming to my TED talk.

The other changes sound like a good idea too, though. I look forward to seeing what changes y'all make <3
 
My Dime Is Up said:
We could also look into lowering AFK points to 10 points/2 mins and if you're actively playing it'll be the normal 20 points/2 mins. Opinions?
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I considered this as well, but figured penalizing AFK would be stinky.
If that's the route, I'd make it 15/2m for afk and 25/2m for active play. It's still a 10pt diff, but without hurting AFK as much and actually increasing the reward for active players vs leaving it at status quo.
 
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