Pending Disable AFK point gain

[Bad Cat]

I know there are a few threads on this, but I wanted a specific workaround.
Disable passive point gain if it's not possible to disable afk specifically. Increase active point gain to compensate.

It has negative impact on the server when randoms come around thinking there are people and they find 12 people AFKing for points. The server often caps out and nobody notices there are still 5 people AFK. It causes WAY more inflation and WAY more imbalance than any increase to actual gameplay would. You need hundreds of thousands of points to get everything, and that's before we get a full store full of things. Who cares if several dedicated players have everything within the year? They'll earn it actually playing the game instead of damaging the server's reputation and their computer hardware, and it would mean people who casually play TTT get some fun stuff to mess around with alongside those of us that play it religiously.

Edit: It just defeats the entire purpose of having a point shop. If there is such a fundamental problem with the game system that it requires people not play the game to solve it, that demands an alternative workaround. AFKing players should not be a requirement for people to feel satisfied with their gameplay. It devalues the server, it devalues the point system, and it's clearly creating resentment in the community as a whole- Both for the people who have to do it to feel like they are progressing, and the people who feel like their rewards are devalued because they don't AFK. There are zero positives, except to fix a perceived issue that exists elsewhere.

 

[Siddo]

I'll need to gather my thoughts on this before I give my opinion. But this might be a fairly contentious issue between those who AFK and those who don't enjoy joining a 10 player server to see that 8 are AFK.

As such, a pre-emptive plea:
Please keep things constructive and relevant to the suggestion <3

 

[RobertClark]

People AFKing on the server during the day (which they are incentivized to do via AFK point farming) helps boost the server's rating. Garry's Mod (and all the server tracking sites) ping the servers every 5 (I think) minutes for playercount when giving the server a ranking (On GMOD this is what shows up in the server list). I think taking the incentive away and people not boosting the playercount on the server would be a bad idea if we want the server to grow.

 

[Bad Cat]

I didn't know about the rating boosting thing, but I do think it's a bit ridiculous the only practical way to earn the upgrades in a reasonable amount of time is to AFK 24-7.

 

[Zikeji]

I think passive point gain could be increased while active and decreased while AFK. So there is still some incentive, but less so. In addition to that, I agree with the other posts about increasing active point gain (e.g. PTFO'ing)

 

[Elvis]

I work 10-14 hour shifts 5 days a week. The little time I get free is spent on the server playing and having fun. I think its even more unfair to make it to where I can not enjoy the same upgrades as everyone else just because I can not dedicate as much time as someone else. When the server caps out, AFK's are kicked rather quickly.

-1

 

[waffle]

+1 I see people saying they dont have time to get points but thats just how a lot multiplayer video games are lol imagine getting dark matter by just opening your game and walking away. These are rewards to incentivize playing if you DONT have time thats just unfortunate, same as many other games though. its also fucking annoying joining a 16 player server to 8 people playing

 

[Pomegranate]

I joined to 12 afk players man like are we joking

 

[RhazhBash]

I joined to 12 afk players man like are we joking

Better to have a server with 12 AFKs than an empty server.

 

[Bad Cat]

I work 10-14 hour shifts 5 days a week. The little time I get free is spent on the server playing and having fun. I think its even more unfair to make it to where I can not enjoy the same upgrades as everyone else just because I can not dedicate as much time as someone else. When the server caps out, AFK's are kicked rather quickly.

-1

But that's exactly part of the problem. Being AFK as a primary source of points for casual players means that most players don't get to enjoy those upgrades.

 

[Elvis]

But that's exactly part of the problem. Being AFK as a primary source of points for casual players means that most players don't get to enjoy those upgrades.

Anyone can AFK for points. Not everyone can play for 6+ hours a day. If we make it to where no one can AFK farm points then the VAST majority of players will not be able to gain points at a fair rate.

 

[Pomegranate]

Anyone can AFK for points. Not everyone can play for 6+ hours a day. If we make it to where no one can AFK farm points then the VAST majority of players will not be able to gain points at a fair rate.

The solution to having to afk for points shouldnt be everyone afking??? like what are you on

 

[Sticky Joe]

I'm Of the mind that pretending that nothing can be done about how little points you can get from gameplay (decent effort) compared to just afking (minimal effort) will hurt the server more then lost ratings from less people afking. This suggestion is doomed cause they aren't going to get rid of afk point farming but i think its dumb that we would have to keep making specific suggestions to make afking less effective until they finally cave, And just make general gameplay viable for gaining points for the big upgrades.

 

[proper]

Better to have a server with 12 AFKs than an empty server.

Uh. No? but that's a different conversation

 

[BART]

I work 10-14 hour shifts 5 days a week. The little time I get free is spent on the server playing and having fun. I think its even more unfair to make it to where I can not enjoy the same upgrades as everyone else just because I can not dedicate as much time as someone else. When the server caps out, AFK's are kicked rather quickly.

-1

Does that entitle you to get points and upgrades faster than everyone else though? I really don't understand this mentality. If I play 20 hours a week, and you play 5 hours, but you AFK for 60, you are going to end up with significantly more points. You can then buy faster upgrades and win rounds easier, gaining even more points faster. How is that fair to the people who play? You just got to completely skip the progression of the game? You aren't owed points because you're busy, certainly not more than the people who are actually playing and adding to the server. In what other game is it fair to give the advantage to players who can't play over the people who do? I understand being sad you can't speedrun the upgrades like we could when we were kids but come on man that's life

Anyone can AFK for points. If we make it to where no one can AFK farm points then the VAST majority of players will not be able to gain points at a fair rate.

I disagree completely having had some dogshit computers before. A good amount of people on this game have old/breaking computers to where consistently leaving it on for days on end is a real risk to its health. The few times I leave my computer running over night is because I'm running some simulations or rendering projects and I can't run Gmod at the same time as those, not that I would if I could though. I think its fair to think turning your computer into a GMod bitcoin mine for half a day is stupid, and players shouldn't be required to if they want to keep up in points/upgrade. However, the more people who AFK, the more have to to keep up.


Also you can't talk about anyone being able to AFK if you get priority over the ones that do? I don't see any rule for needing AFK included in a AFK player's name, in AHG that was a staff specific rule. How is it fair that you get to AFK longer than the others? If AFKing is really for fairness shouldn't the player AFK the longest get kicked first?

People AFKing on the server during the day (which they are incentivized to do via AFK point farming) helps boost the server's rating. Garry's Mod (and all the server tracking sites) ping the servers every 5 (I think) minutes for playercount when giving the server a ranking (On GMOD this is what shows up in the server list). I think taking the incentive away and people not boosting the playercount on the server would be a bad idea if we want the server to grow.

I think looking at a dying game through this analytical competitive lens overlooks the actual experience of those you are trying to advertise to. Who cares if you are #4 or #7 on the server list these days? We already have a community of loyal players. It's not that serious anymore. There isn't a ton of servers, so reputation matters a lot more than what rank on the server list Giants Lair is. If a random joins the server 3 times, and feels tricked each time by the fake player count, they are a lot less likely to join a fourth time. I stopped joining AHG at player counts less than 20 because I would get so annoyed at the amount of AFKs, and I was a regular. The randoms aren't thinking "Hmm - this is #6 on the server list... I would've joined if it was #5..." they are thinking "Oh wait thats the server where people don't actually play let me go to a different one"

Anyways, I do think AFKing has its benefits and I'm not sure that gaining points from playtime should be removed entirely. My problem is that AFKs gain points and upgrades significantly faster than the people who actually play, and the amount of AFKs can get insane. Again, the more people who AFK the more others are forced to, and most can't/don't want to (or else the server would be full with AFKs at all times). There is a middle ground where everyone's happy I think, but complete removal of AFK points isn't it. I think my suggestion or halving points is better but somethings gotta be done

+0

 

[Zikeji]

Does that entitle you to get points and upgrades faster than everyone else though? I really don't understand this mentality. If I play 20 hours a week, and you play 5 hours, but you AFK for 60, you are going to end up with significantly more points. You can then buy faster upgrades and win rounds easier, gaining even more points faster. How is that fair to the people who play? You just got to completely skip the progression of the game? You aren't owed points because you're busy, certainly not more than the people who are actually playing and adding to the server. In what other game is it fair to give the advantage to players who can't play over the people who do? I understand being sad you can't speedrun the upgrades like we could when we were kids but come on man that's life

I disagree completely having had some dogshit computers before. A good amount of people on this game have old/breaking computers to where consistently leaving it on for days on end is a real risk to its health. The few times I leave my computer running over night is because I'm running some simulations or rendering projects and I can't run Gmod at the same time as those, not that I would if I could though. I think its fair to think turning your computer into a GMod bitcoin mine for half a day is stupid, and players shouldn't be required to if they want to keep up in points/upgrade. However, the more people who AFK, the more have to to keep up.

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Also you can't talk about anyone being able to AFK if you get priority over the ones that do? I don't see any rule for needing AFK included in a AFK player's name, in AHG that was a staff specific rule. How is it fair that you get to AFK longer than the others? If AFKing is really for fairness shouldn't the player AFK the longest get kicked first?

I think looking at a dying game through this analytical competitive lens overlooks the actual experience of those you are trying to advertise to. Who cares if you are #4 or #7 on the server list these days? We already have a community of loyal players. It's not that serious anymore. There isn't a ton of servers, so reputation matters a lot more than what rank on the server list Giants Lair is. If a random joins the server 3 times, and feels tricked each time by the fake player count, they are a lot less likely to join a fourth time. I stopped joining AHG at player counts less than 20 because I would get so annoyed at the amount of AFKs, and I was a regular. The randoms aren't thinking "Hmm - this is #6 on the server list... I would've joined if it was #5..." they are thinking "Oh wait thats the server where people don't actually play let me go to a different one"

Anyways, I do think AFKing has its benefits and I'm not sure that gaining points from playtime should be removed entirely. My problem is that AFKs gain points and upgrades significantly faster than the people who actually play, and the amount of AFKs can get insane. Again, the more people who AFK the more others are forced to, and most can't/don't want to (or else the server would be full with AFKs at all times). There is a middle ground where everyone's happy I think, but complete removal of AFK points isn't it. I think my suggestion or halving points is better but somethings gotta be done

+0

I think a fair middle ground is to separate the AFK passive point gain from the active passive point gain.

Presently you gain 20 points per 2 minutes - given your example of 20 active hours and 60 AFK hours, if AFK gain (AFK being spectator) was instead 10 points per 2 minutes but active were 25 points per 2 minutes that would somewhat balance it and keep AFKing viable. A more extreme nerf could be considered, but I'm not sure about going too hard on it.

 

[Siddo]

Presently you gain 20 points per 2 minutes - given your example of 20 active hours and 60 AFK hours, if AFK gain (AFK being spectator) was instead 10 points per 2 minutes but active were 25 points per 2 minutes that would somewhat balance it and keep AFKing viable. A more extreme nerf could be considered, but I'm not sure about going too hard on it.

Since it's pertinent to this idea, I think mentioning the other current suggestion, where a dev brought this up, is worthwhile;

Pending Post in thread 'More Points'

Friday at 12:13 AM

We could also look into lowering AFK points to 10 points/2 mins and if you're actively playing it'll be the normal 20 points/2 mins. Opinions?

• My Dime Is Up

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[Bad Cat]

Anyone can AFK for points. Not everyone can play for 6+ hours a day. If we make it to where no one can AFK farm points then the VAST majority of players will not be able to gain points at a fair rate.

I think a fair middle ground is to separate the AFK passive point gain from the active passive point gain.

Presently you gain 20 points per 2 minutes - given your example of 20 active hours and 60 AFK hours, if AFK gain (AFK being spectator) was instead 10 points per 2 minutes but active were 25 points per 2 minutes that would somewhat balance it and keep AFKing viable. A more extreme nerf could be considered, but I'm not sure about going too hard on it.

The solution to this is just to make the shop so dedicated players can buy anything after a short while and casual players have to play longer but can still get a few solid upgrades a month.


People aren't coming to the server for points, they are coming to the server to play TTT. If the barrier-to-entry for the point shop is somebody AFKing or not, that's a stupid barrier that needs to immediately be fixed. The point shop items are fun. All the dedicated players are going to get them in the end. If it's really such an issue that you don't have them right-at-this-moment, then that's an issue literally everyone is universally experiencing and is negatively impacting everyone. You don't have to worry about the dedicated players having their experience go stale, because they're dedicated players with literally nothing else to do but play TTT. And if you're worried about revenue, most dedicated players are going to buy rank regardless of the point shop anyways.

AFK players are not valuable to the server, ranking aside (Which I don't think is that big a deal). They make us look bad, disappoint people who want to play during off-hours, and the entire point is literally to defeat the purpose of having a point shop instead of just having the upgrades by default. It is not a good or positive system in any way, fundamentally.

 

[Siddo]

Also you can't talk about anyone being able to AFK if you get priority over the ones that do? I don't see any rule for needing AFK included in a AFK player's name, in AHG that was a staff specific rule. How is it fair that you get to AFK longer than the others? If AFKing is really for fairness shouldn't the player AFK the longest get kicked first?

Speaking to this specifically, the general staff expectation is to kick staff first. I wasn't there for the situation mentioned in Shoutbox, so I can't speak to the details at the time. But the norm is to treat staff equally or give favouritism to regular players over staff when kicking AFKs.
All staff put the AFK tag to clearly signal 1) they're not playing, and; 2) to let other staff know it's fine to kick them if needed.

Just wanted to quickly address this point before it takes on a life of its own.

 

[Helitin]

I want my points. -100